The queens of Irish gay life, Katherine Zappone and Ann Louise Gilligan (Zappigan) were interviewed on The Right Hook this evening at 6.30. For those of you not in the know, The Right Hook is ex-rugby player, and current rugby pundit, George Hook’s, daily show on Newstalk 106.

Hook has become known as one of Ireland’s grumpy old men in recent years, always the devil’s advocate when commenting on Ireland’s rugby campaigns. On radio, he comes across as an affable, intelligent man, well-read and trying to ask the questions the listener wants to ask.

Once a week, The Right Hook has ‘the interview’ which lasts a good 30 minutes. Usually 10 of those minutes are actual interview and the rest are George trying to come up with a pithy comment, or gushing forward in that blustering manner he has.

This week, Zappigan were in the hot seat. As usual, the came across exceptionally well. Better the Hook came across, in fairness.

They were sensitive, hugely intelligent and interesting. As theologians, they had fascinating theories on Jesus and ‘liberation theology’, something I’ll be Googling as soon as I finish this. I could have listened to them for hours.

Ann Louise, who is thought of as the meeker of the two, spoke about the modern use of the word ‘gay’ as an insult (‘oh that watch is so gay’ etc). She had been passing Trinity and a couple of students were behind her. One of the lads used the word in this way and she actually turned around and said “I’m a lesbian and I don’t appreciate you using the word gay in that way” (I’m paraphrasing). I love her!! Another reason for them to be heroes – taking the fight to the streets!

Hook started the interview asking them about their work history as “I am aware that people pigeonhole you and I don’t want to do that”. Fair enough.

Then he got to the pigeons.

It was all very “I’m George Hook and this is what I think, what do you mean the interview is about you?” It would’ve been easy to be annoyed, but he does that with every guest, so at least there’s no discrimination.

What did rankle were his closing words. Obviously feeling outdone by Katherine’s beautiful, heartfelt description of why she loves Ireland, he told the tale of being in short pants (he seems to have lived 47 years in short pants, so many life-affirming events occurred) and leaving the cinema with his Dad having watched the Olympics in which Jesse Owens won gold. It was then, hailed George, when papa Hook made it clear to him that Irish people were still treated terribly in the US, that he decided that a just society was an equal society. The man really should have a montage.

Anyway, he ended by saying “therefore I may not agree with your choice, but I would fight to the death for you to make it”.

Choice???? What choice??? The choice to marry? The choice to fight for the right to be recognised as married? The choice to write the book? The choice to become academics? Which choice???

Surely he could not, not our liberal, ‘fight to the death’ George, he could not mean that he thinks sexuality is a choice? No….no I must be wrong. Even in short pants he knew that Jesse Owens had no choice and papa Hook had no choice. They had to endure discrimination, prejudice and oppression. They fought against it, and society is the better for it, but there was no question of choice.

Just as there is no issue of ‘choice’ in Katherine and Ann Louise’s love for one another. What we can and will be eternally grateful for is that they made those other choices – to represent, to fight and to speak.

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