Comments on: Can the Irish connection change Uganda’s plans to execute gays?

By: Things to do in Uganda when you’re gay | India News Blog, Latest News From India, Latest Blogs From India

Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:03:04 +0000

[...] Can the Irish connection change Uganda’s plans to execute gays? (gaelick.com) Categories: Hot Trends, lezgetreal.com Tags: Comments (0) Leave a comment [...]

By: Things to do in Uganda when you’re gay - Lez Get Real

Things to do in Uganda when you’re gay - Lez Get Real — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:00:07 +0000

[...] Can the Irish connection change Uganda’s plans to execute gays? (gaelick.com) [...]

By: Why I’ll blog about Ugandan gays, and you can’t stop me | India News Blog, Latest News From India, Latest Blogs From India

Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:32:08 +0000

[...] I’ve been writing a lot about Uganda’s proposed Anti-Homosexuality Bill. I’ve been accused of racism, of trying to subvert Uganda’s sovereignty, cultural imperialism, and of ignoring the will of [...]

By: Why I’ll blog about Ugandan gays, and you can’t stop me - Lez Get Real

Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:30:29 +0000

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:35:33 +0000

I can only say… wow. You’ve come full circle, now haven’t you? From pretending that you cared about the success of the LGBT movement in Uganda, to finally showing your true colours.
There’s little else to say. I understand you’ve been told that homosexuality can be cured. I understand that you might not feel like questioning it. I understand that your revulsion for gay people makes you able to not care if they are slaughtered in the name of “culture”.
But the fact is that the heft of science on the matter directly contradicts your assertion, and we are not about to abandon gay Ugandans to the beliefs espoused by people like you and Richard Cohen.

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:12:51 +0000

Homosexuality is a crime in Uganda. You cannot go on a radio station and promote criminality in any country.
People with sexually deviant behavior can be rehabilitated. Culture is a human right. Like all societies in the world, Ugandans cherish their culture and traditions. There is no “domestic pressure” in Uganda against this bill. Ugandans overwhelmingly support this bill and it will pass in the coming months.
Your so called “international pressure” is simply an attempt to impose white culture on black people. In Africa we got rid of racists and cultural imperialists.

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:46:52 +0000

Sorry Lynn, I didn’t see this.
Thanks for that story. It’s useful to illustrate how these “Policies” and “Private members bill” really impact the lives of Ugandan gays.
Fingers crossed that international pressure can make a difference, because domestic pressure will cost too many lives.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:12:41 +0000

Lily Chapman“>The bill before parliament is a private members bill NOT a government bill. In any democracy, a member of parliament can table a bill. This is how democracy works. There is no need to suppress democracy. If the Bill violates human rights, Ugandans themselves will reject it.

You do not seem to realize that Uganda already violates certain human rights. A few years ago when some gays went on a radio program to discuss the need for any HIV/AIDS suppport for the Ugandan gay community the government fined the radio station after the broadcast for airing a purient topic in contrast to the sensibilities of the Ugandan people. How then do Ugandan gays and lesbians talk about issues of public policy which would affect them? This bill enshrines that very obscenity against free speech which is in the Ugandan constitution by denying any speech which might be seen as supportive of gays and lesbians. This bill makes Ugandan gays, lesbians and other sexual minorities nonpersons in Uganda.

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:09:48 +0000

Actually its your article that goes off topic..You are targeting Uganda’s new oil industry that has nothing to do with homosexual issues. Clearly your desire is to see blacks/Africans remain impoverished. But no one is buying this nonsense as Bill Gates said recently.
That’s why you don’t mention Saudi Arabia and other countries in context, that have even harsher anti-gay laws. You are so consumed in attacking a private members Bill forgetting that this is a social issue that requires a social solution.
You are only making it worse for Gay Ugandans reinforcing the belief in Uganda that being Gay is a foreign imposed culture.

By: click here

click here — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:11:34 +0000

Gosh, it’s interesting that Thabo/Lily have introduced a number of other points in their comments: it’s almost straw-man-argument-esque. As in, an attempt to talk about other things, rather than the points made in CanuckJacq’s article.

I suppose the use of the phrase “LGBT agenda” by Lily is revealing, though.

(It’s also actually ironic that you would accuse a blog that’s based in this country – itself a former colony – of being “racist, colonialist, imperialist, with a slave mentality.”)

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:06:32 +0000

Tullow Oil is listed in several ethical investment groups. I'm going to do more digging to see how accurate it is that it's listed, but the fact that it is gives me hope that they might try and effect some change.

By: HAL

HAL — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:35:42 +0000

Resubmitted to clear formatting:

Interesting article and fascinating response.

Unfortunately, people like Aiden Heavey don't become the “longest serving CEO of a FTSE 100 company”, by giving a damn about anything but profit.

I shall not go into what Lily and CanuckJacq are discussing as I'm not informed. However, any mention of an "LGBT agenda" makes me need to, in turn, inform. There is no such thing. Simple.

Just as anyone wants to be treated equally and afforded the same rights as those around them, so do gay people. Not an agenda; a desperate need.

Those who would be killed because of their sexuality need to be protected. Obviously, the only people who can do this are those with power or influence in that country. So, members of the community on the outside looking in, want to ask those with power/influence to take care of the vulnerable.

In my view, that is nothing against Uganda specifically, but any country where people need protection.

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:51:49 +0000

Wrong. Uganda isn't a place for gays, Ugandan or not.

It maybe a private members bill but it is still there, well supported and being visibly advanced. It's a massive step backwards.

I will admit to knowing little about South Africa but I would guess that people in Washington DC largely have access to medications that prevent the glut of deaths that Uganda saw in the period up to 2001.

I'm glad you've finally settled on an identity and argument, but your name calling is getting tiresome. Were it not for my avatar you wouldn't know if I was black or white. You don't know what connections I have to Africa.

For the record, if Canada proposed similar legislation, I would be protesting it too.

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:13:09 +0000

First , Uganda is not just a place for Ugandan gays …It’s place for all Ugandans.
Secondly, your idea that education is illegal is totally false. There is a private members Bill not a law, and there many ways of selling a message without being arrogant and patronizing.
Thirdly, your spin on the Aids situation is
“dramatic reduction in people living with HIV/AIDS might also have had something to do with a period of time where drugs were difficult to come by and deaths by AIDS rose”
Can you explain why this hasn’t happened anywhere else in world? in countries like S.Africa where the situation is even worse or in Washington DC ( which is worse than Uganda in AIDS prevalence)
Finally you can speak as much as you want but to Africans, you are coming across as a bunch of white people who are trying to impose yourselves on black people. Your message is being interpreted as racist, colonialist, imperialist, with a slave mentality and making people like Bahati look like heroes in Africa.

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:52:51 +0000

Oh I get it now, you're doing all this for Ugandan gays. See I wasn't getting that from you before.

Tell me, how is education supposed to help when it becomes illegal to speak up about homosexuality, or even know a homosexual person and not turn them in?

Also, the dramatic reduction in people living with HIV/AIDS might also have had something to do with a period of time where drugs were difficult to come by and deaths by AIDS rose dramatically, improving the country's stats at the same time.

But I agree, in many ways Uganda has done the right thing. At the moment, they are not.

And I have every right to speak out about it.

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:24:44 +0000

Actually you are totally misinformed about Uganda…It is a success story in the region. The Uganda government unlike other governments in the region has reduced life expectancy from 42 years to 53 years in a period of 15 years. This is not a small achievement. Uganda is the only country that has successfully reduced Aids prevalence from 16% to less than 6% is less than 10 years.
Uganda is the only country in Africa that manufactures ARVs and ACTs drugs for AIDS patients. The company was built entirely by Ugandans with technical assistance from India…There are so many achievements to list…
Of course there have been a few failures ( like in any other country) but it is totally disingenuous to cherry pick on a few mistakes so that you can promote your LGBT agenda.
The bill before parliament is a private members bill NOT a government bill. In any democracy, a member of parliament can table a bill. This is how democracy works. There is no need to suppress democracy. If the Bill violates human rights, Ugandans themselves will reject it.
Uganda is doing a better job unlike other countries which have recently passed anti-gay bills without public debate like Burundi and Nigeria. People like you are telling Africa…..If you tell us what you are doing, we are going to demonize you in the press.
The LGBT issue in Africa as Bill Gates said recently is about Stigma NOT the laws. Stigma can only stop through education NOT threats and intimidation. Your attempt to pick on companies that do business in Uganda amounts to threats and economic sabotage. This is only strengthening the anti-gay movement in Uganda.

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:47:25 +0000

I am not suggesting that in the slightest. I am suggesting that Ugandan lawmakers abide by internationally accepted policies in order to prevent the needless deaths of Ugandans. I am also suggesting that Tullow Oil use some of their influence to say something to the lawmakers to prevent the needless deaths of innocent Ugandans.

Also, in a country where the government mistreats its own people, there is no reason at all to believe that the economic investment will benefit anyone but the already rich and powerful. You seem to have a great deal of faith in Uganda's government, or are you just very willing to sacrifice the lives of gay people?

Homosexuality is already illegal in Uganda, which means gay Ugandans lack the ability to effectively protest or lobby against this bill. It is therefore up to the rest of the world to stand up for them.

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:37:26 +0000

Author..,
If you ask international companies to stop doing business with poor countries, these countries will not have resources to provide basic services to its people…for example health care, etc… This will lead to many deaths (already many people are dieing from Malaria) i.e your article is basically suggesting death for these poor people. / genocide…..By discouraging Tullow investment in Uganda.
People like Bahati who are passing this bill are rich enough to afford their own medicine.

By: CanuckJacq

CanuckJacq — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:16:01 +0000

Hi Lily.

I don't think I've suggested a non-peaceful approach.

And can you ask Thabo to qualify his statements about Paula being racist and calling for genocide? Since you're posting from the same location, thought you might just ask.

Thanks!

By: Lily Chapman

Lily Chapman — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:08:39 +0000

Uganda should be commended for making its oil deals open for public discussion. How many of us in the WEST even know what our governments are doing with our own resources? At the end of the day as Thabo said…, Uganda’s resources belong to Ugandans. I don’t think pointing fingers at poor countries will do the gay movement any good. There are so many peaceful ways of resolving this issue.